http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204740904577196931457473816.html
Another article, perhaps you have seen, I just finally read it today. Very interesting, do different parts of the world parent differently? Are there things we could learn from other cultures? Looking forward to a good discussion. Hope everyone has a wonderful day!
I read this article on Saturday and posted it to Facebook. Sadly, I got one response...which leads me to think I am the only one with a very American child. I also sent it to my husband and then we sat down and discussed. In a two-parent household it's so important to be on the same page with parenting, discipline, rules, etc.
ReplyDeleteMy daughter is good in restaurants, so we don't have that challenge, but the challenge of immediate gratification is alive and well under our roof. There are days I feel more like her bitch than her mother. The incessant asking for something until she gets it can drive a person insane. I've found improvement by changing my wording. Instead of "in a minute...." I've been saying, "After I finish/empty/clean, etc. the blah blah blah I will get/build/listen xyz." It seems the rationale for the delay makes all the difference in my daughter's patience level.
The stern "no" is also working. I remember when my daughter was little our pediatrician told us that once we draw the line in the sand to never waver. All of a sudden my husband and I are wavering (on little silly things) after we get the "ppppplease." So annoying. So now she is understanding no is no. Do not ask again, do not ask another parent. Also with the "no" we're offering up the reason behind.
I find I'm raising my voice a lot less and there is less frustration on all sides.
Has anyone else tried anything?
Hillary, I think your implementation of the article is brilliant and I am going to start using the "I will be happy to do that for you after I do x etc" instead of stopping mid whatever and getting a juice box. Patience is hard, and I know we need to work on that over here too.
ReplyDeleteI loved how when the French parents get together, they talk, and the kids play, I find that this is the case with Tessa and her age group, and I expect it, if they call down with something that they can fix, I ask her to do it. The other day I even asked her to get her own snack after she asked one millisecond after I sat down to cut coupons, and you know what? She did. And well, got a bowl out and everything to pour the pretzels into. I like to think I am also fostering independence by asking for a little more from her. Now Sophia is harder, I still need to be pretty close by her, but have hopes that one day, my girls will run off and play at a playdate and I can sit and have that cup of coffee.
T has just started the phase of asking over and over when she does not hear what she wants, I am not sure how to have a stern no, and she keeps asking, and then I usually go to a consequence if asks one more time. I know I need to work on this.
Loved the article, I for one could relate and I am enjoying reading different points of view on parenting etc. I think we have things to learn from all cultures. We are all just doing our very best, but I appreciated these tips to make me feel less like a slave...that is what I call it, I am their slave. And yes, I am, I am their mother and I stay at home with them and my job is to care for them, but perhaps my job is to give them a little patience too...thoughts to ponder.
My sister in law Megan posted this on FB the other day, which I found hilarious because she and my brother have no kids, but she posted it as another reason to try and convince my brother to move to France (she is obsessed with all things French).
ReplyDeleteAnyway, I found the article so interesting and agreed with so many of the concepts of French parenting. What really stood out to me is the concept that French children can entertain themselves. Although I think it's wonderful that parents these days are so involved with giving their kids all kinds of experiences and doing "projects" with them, there's got to be a balance. I remember as a kid doing lots of projects, but I came up with them on my own and created them on my own- my mom certainly wasn't reading craft blogs or scouring Pinterest during the day! I have distinct memories of building bug and frog habitats, gluing shells together to make "sculptures" and spending hours in my room alone with colored pencils drawing exotic animals. Now of course all this happened when I was school age, not little like our kids are now. But, I think we set the stage when our kids are little for fostering independent play and creativity later.
But what do I know? My kid is incredibly needy, and I long for the day he can (sit and)play with toys for 5 minutes without some physical need having to be met. I worry sometimes about the line between having to meet all his physical needs and him becoming spoiled because Mom is always there whenever he needs/wants something.
I also think the concept of the stern NO is great. When I was teaching, I saw this a lot- kids think NO means just keep asking, but in a higher pitched, more whiny voice. Ugh.
Overall, I think the article was really good- and yes, I think there is a lot to be learned from the way other cultures parent- China is another one that comes to mind, although I have no desire to be a Tiger Mom, I think their emphasis on education and repeating things until you get them is great.
Looking forward to reading everyone else's thoughts!
Sigh.
ReplyDeleteSigh. I am totally that American mom. Sure, "no" does seem to be accepted over here and sure, I have gotten better at listening to an upset toddler who didn't get her way, but in general, I give in just for the peace and quiet. If she wants a popsicle, she'll eat an apple first and understand that rule of healthy first.
But... last night she surprised us with simply not being ready for bed at 8pm. We hadn't encountered this before. She asked if she could read in her little pink chair in her room with a flashlight. How on earth am I to know what to do in this case? I had her read in her bed and told her that I do that too... read until you fall asleep. Good night. But that didn't work. To me, I give and give all day to her and after 8pm I am just DONE. I agree that it's adult time. She is SO not welcome. (I mean, she was wanting to PLAY!) This house does not revolve around her, but yet it seems like it does.
This morning, dear child was crying and standing literally right next to the Kleenex box and screaming, "I need a tissue!!!" over and over again. When I told her she could get it herself because they're right there, she said "YOU get it!" Oh hell no.
So now that I've read this article, I have even firmer conviction that all of this is just not acceptable. I am freakin tired of it all! AND, I know that if I don't lay down the law right now (when I'm still bigger than she is!), it'll be a hell of a time when she's older. I'm not too worried because I have seen her accept a situation because she knows I'll follow thru on my consequences threats. And I know she's getting enough loving and attention, positive reinforcement, etc.
I am so glad to read this article. I have one French friend that I see weekly and I actually did notice last week that she "disciplines" the same way I do... separation from the group, stern and quiet talking to (with reasoning behind it and explained), etc.
I love hearing your take on this too. Erin, you are doing such an excellent job obviously. Your girls will play together or by themselves for long periods of time, which I think is amazing. You are always the first person I ask about a parenting issue, which you probably laugh at but it's true! Elizabeth, so true that our mothers were so different from how most are today. My mom still is the same way and somehow it totally works. When Hannah's at her house, my mom pretty much does what she always does and Hannah just falls in beside her, whether it's that mom is sewing in the craft room and Hannah's playing with fabric scraps or mom is making dinner in the kitchen and H is watching her, "helping" her, or playing at the kitchen table with a project. My mom doesn't change anything or cater to her. "It's time to..." and that's that, and she walks away.
My goal is actually probably a silly one. I want to be able to sit on the couch in my own home and work on my computer or read a book while my daughter is also home, but working on her own thing. SPACE between us would be lovely. I mean, girlfriend won't even watch a tv program without one of us right next to her. But I feel guilty (oy). It's not as if I am making dinner or cleaning or doing something definitely necessary. Reading is a luxury, but isn't it deserved? My mom said to me once, "pretend you're in charge." Lol.
My hubby agrees with all of this and says "baby steps" are necessary, but I'm just diving right in. It is the way it is, babe. I am so tired and so overwhelmed that enough is enough.
Agreed that our parents were NOT sitting around thinking of ways to craft with us or play with us all day every day...and we are all ok, right? I am an only child and I spent a lot of time playing alone, in my room, pretend school etc. My father always said, "I am not the entertainment committee". It seems like parenting in the US has changed in 30 years, maybe the norm and expectations are different? With my girls I consciously do not intervene unless needed, which is a lot, but even at Gymboree, I don't hoover, I let her go, but I want them to learn to be ok on their own, but I too also need my space. SO maybe I have been parenting like the French all along, but now I am more aware of it and will be even better, and still working on the stern no. :o) Enjoying everyone's comments, thanks ladies!
ReplyDeleteI was excited to read this article because I am always intrigued with different parenting skills.. Just wanted to post a few of my Scottish parenting observations:
ReplyDeleteOne thing I have found is that the parents and the children are pretty resilient and tough. They walk to school in all kinds of weather, sometimes with several kids in tow. The children are always walking and staying close by their parents side and never run ahead or wandering.. Amazing to me:) E and C love to explore and go in different directions:(
Children rarely play outside, but they are involved in extra curricular activities. They don't watch much tv and I have noticed that they don't have a tons of access to many extended cable shows or electronics; IPAD, I touch, DVD player in the car, computers, etc.. All of which Emma has and can navigate:( Probably not a good thing. There are several soft play areas that are quite popular, but I don't visit them since I am a bit of a germ a phob:(
Eating out at restaurants is still a struggle for us, but I have seen families do it and succeed. On top of the fact that the service is much slower then in the states.. The kids just sit there and wait or color. I am always handing out activities to keep E and C entertained and quiet.. We do not eat out much and if we do it is at 4:45:)
I have noticed that children are offered 3 meals a day and very small snacks, if any.. E and C could snack all day.. Luckily, they do not have many sugary or high processed snacks, but still snacking does not help with eating entire meals at meal times:(
I have found that parents wait to make toy purchases for holidays or birthdays. Children make lists and the parents do not buy it until the holiday.. They do not give in when their child spies something they have seen on tv or something new at the store.. Emma just talked about toy she wants, it is called Doggy Doo.. That's right, a dog that you put playdoh in its mouth and it will come out the other end.... Ummmmm,, GROSS..... For sure not giving into that... Everything is so expensive here so I understand the waiting.... A few times a year, the stores have big sales and the toys are buy one get one free.. I seemed to have missed those:(
Children speak proper English and I am really enjoying the fact that Emma is picking up on it a bit.. I am really trying to speak slower and clearer to her and C. I have found that she is listening better and asks more questions. She uses these words regularly, bin for trashcan, buggy for stroller, toe-ma-toe is how she pronounces tomato, she says things like, let's give it a go, mom.. She has said, let's have a proper snack. Today she said, Thanks for looking after me mom.. Who is this little Scottish lady.....:)
I still need to practice patience with her and myself often and I like the idea of the marshmellow, except she won't eat them:( A timer has worked for us in the past when I want a few minutes of ME time and she plays by herself until the timer goes off.. Then I play with her for a bit and then I try it again. Thankfully E and C play together now:)
Sorry for my disappearance here, ladies. I've been swamped with work and illnesses and etc. I'm actually not even halfway through the book I was reading before Thanksgiving! But I love these topics and the discussions, so I wanted to poke my head back in.
ReplyDeleteThis article REALLY struck a major nerve with me. My sweet boy is perma-attached to me, and I often feel exhausted with it. Now that he's 16 months, I've been trying to figure out ways to... well, be more like the article!
When I read it, I thought back to the beginning of Larkin's life and realized that the immediate gratification issue started right away. We were nursing on demand - if he even seemed to be hungry, it was offered, no matter what. That kind of became a habit in a lot of other ways.
The thing is, I'm not sure that it's a as bad of a thing how much time and effort we exhaust on our children as the article implies.
I wanted to do more research on the topic, so I contacted an old friend who is French (born and raised in France, married an Australian and lived there the past 8 years and currently lives in America). Her first input into the article backed up my thought on breastfeeding being the start of my differences to the lifestyle mentioned in the article. In France, it's nearly unheard of to breastfeed at all, and they have the lowest breastfeeding rate in the western world.
She also said that nannies are overwhelmingly common, even in the middle class. And almost ALL children (even those whose mothers stay at home) attend daycare full time at a very early age.
***Let me add - I am NOT implying that not breastfeeding, having a nanny or putting a child in daycare means anything negative. My friend was using that combination(and others) as a particular example to show a pattern in French child rearing methods***
She agreed with the article that evenings are for the parents - when her father died in her mid-twenties, she knew virtually nothing about him (even his middle name until she read his obituary!). He was just the guy who showed up at the end of the day and was at the dinner table talking to her mom while she and her brother ate their dinner quietly. And this wasn't considered unusual - it was standard with her friend's families!
We talked for a long time about how (in many ways) we've both adopted more of the Australian methods of child rearing (I met her there when I lived there). It's a more attached approach while they're little, then a respectful but independent upbringing as they age. Children there (at least in our area) can often be found in the back yard, naked and knee deep in the mud, like wild people - but I never once heard an argument when mother called for them to wash up. In fact, both the parents and the school systems demand (and profer) a HUGE amount more respect than ours.
So, to sum up my novel: I do agree that child rearing is exhausting. But they're only little for such a short time! I'm okay with putting myself on the backburner a bit for now (although I do wish my husband would be more active so my burner didn't have to be SO far back... but that's a different story). On the other hand, I agree that American children are not sufficiently taught NO. This is a new focus in our house. Sometimes it feels a little stupid to explain to a 16 month old WHY I'm saying no. I know he doesn't understand now, but it's a habit I want to be in for when he CAN understand. I also really like Hilary's use of time phrasing, and I will definitely be using that one!